OHIO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
HOW TO KILL A BIG PERSON

Ohio is trying to figure out how to kill Ronald Post.

Mr. Post killed the desk clerk at a motel during a robbery in 1983. He has been on death row at a state prison in Ohio since 1985 and is scheduled to be put to death by lethal injection on January 16. There is only one problem: executioners may not be able to find a vein into which to place the injection.

Mr. Post weighs 450 pounds and doctors who examined him say his arms, legs, and hands are too fat to find an accessible vein.

The state could use a backup procedure, Mr. Post’s lawyers say, but it would involve injecting the life-snuffing drugs directly into muscle, and that process could be neither easy nor rapid. It could, in fact, require several doses over several hours, or even days, Mr. Post’s lawyers say in court papers recently filed asking for a stay of execution. That could only result, they say, in a grueling and painful end to Mr. Post’s life—far surpassing the legal standards prohibiting cruel and unusual punishment.

In fact, they say, records show that it took Ohio executioners something like two hours to insert IVs into the veins of Christopher Newton in 2007, and that condemned man weighed only 265 pounds — 200 pounds less than Mr. Post.

Nevertheless, the State of Ohio says it feels certain that Mr. Post can be humanely executed, either using its regular procedure or the backup process, which has never been used before — meaning executioners do not know through experience how it will work.

Still, Ohio Assistant Attorney General Charles Wille said in court papers that Mr. Post has not presented the court “sufficient evidence demonstrating that his obesity or other physical conditions will present a substantial risk that his execution cannot be conducted in a humane and dignified manner.” A hearing will be held in Columbus later this month, at which a federal judge will decide whether Ohio should kill Mr. Post on January 16.

The United States is one of an ever-decreasing number of countries where the death penalty still exists. Most of the world’s civilized nations have decided that killing someone in order to send a signal to their society that it is not okay to kill someone is probably sending a reverse signal. Futhermore, it has been proven factually and statistically that the death penalty does not work to lower the capital crime rate. Removing guns from the streets by not making them so easily available does lower capital crime, but in a startling and striking contraction, U.S. voters don’t seem to care. So it is not reducing crimes involving death that American voters seem to be concerned with, it would appear to be revenge.

In the State of California just last month, citizens rejected a ballot measure to repeal the death penalty and replace it with a sentence of life without parole. A majority of voters indicated that spending life in prison was not sufficient punishment for a capital crime, and that they want people killed by the state for such crimes — whether those state-sponsored killings actually deter capital crime or not.

An impressive list of people from within the law enforcement community in that state supported repealing the death penalty, but that did not seem to matter to most voters, who apparently see simple revenge as an appropriate reason to kill someone.

Typical of the statements supporting repeal of the death penalty was this observation offered by San Francisco District Attorney George Gascon, a former police chief: “Given my experience, I believe there are three compelling reasons why the death penalty should be replaced. (1) The criminal justice system makes mistakes and the possibility of executing innocent people is both inherently wrong and morally reprehensible; (2) My personal experience and crime data show the death penalty does not reduce crime; and (3) The death penalty wastes precious resources that could be best used to fight crime and solve thousands of unsolved homicides languishing in filing cabinets in understaffed police departments across the state.”

Meanwhile, Cathy Lynn Henderson — who at one point had been two days away from execution after being convicted of the murder of a baby — was granted a new trial on December 5 by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, based on recent scientific developments and the alteration of testimony presented at trial by the prosecution’s star witness, who has since change his initial diagnosis as to what might have caused the baby’s death.

Ms. Henderson insisted at her trial that the baby, who had been in her care, had squirmed and slipped from her arms, falling onto a concrete floor. But the star witness for the prosecution, former medical examiner Robert Bayardo, testified that the findings during an autopsy of the child indicated that death could not have been caused by such a fall.

Since that 1994 autopsy, however, advancements in the understanding of pediatric head injuries now indicate that relatively short falls onto a hard surface could produce injuries similar to those he discovered, Dr. Bayardo has said. This caused a district judge to rule earlier this year that no reasonable juror would have convicted Ms. Henderson if presented with this evidence. The Texas appeals court agreed, and days ago ordered a new trial for the woman, who has been in jail for over ten years and was once just 48 hours away from being killed by the State of Texas, all for a crime she may never have committed.

Yes, the district attorney of San Francisco is correct. Mistakes can be made by law enforcement that leads to the unwarranted and unjustified death of an innocent defendant. But American voters seem to be willing to take that risk, insisting that government should kill a person for killing a person — even if the government cannot be sure of the defendant’s guilt.

I believe that this is another reason, a strong case, for supporting the Civil Rights Movement for the Soul, which seeks to end, at last, the oppression of our beliefs in a violent, angry, and vindictive God. For it is our belief in an “eye-for-an-eye, tooth-for-a-tooth” kind of God that we employ consistently and obstinately as our moral authority for our own “take that!” revenge mentality.

And your thoughts?

(EDITOR’S NOTE: The conversation about the Civil Rights Movement for the Soul continues on this newspaper’s front page in the space titled Interpreting Conversations with God. If you were following that conversation, please look for it there.)

Comments

51 responses to “OHIO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
HOW TO KILL A BIG PERSON”

  1. Maribeth McFaul Avatar
    Maribeth McFaul

    I have ALWAYS been against the death penalty. As I child I remember trying to figure out how it made any sense to kill some for killing someone.

    Never-the-less, how on earth could a man in jail for 2 years (or more) be so morbidly obese? What are they feeding him???

    Which leads me to another topic: the Civil Rights Movement should include the Body. It should be the Civil Rights Movment for the Body and Soul. Watch the documentary, “Forks over Knives” (Netflix.) or read “Diet for a New America.”

  2. Neale Walsch Avatar
    Neale Walsch

    Maribeth…Should the Civil Rights Movement for the Soul succeed in its objective, the Body and the Mind will be taken care of. This is because the CRMS is about returning us to an understanding and an acceptance of Who We Really Are…of our True Identity…and such an understanding would preclude behaviors such as destruction or desecration of the human body. Tnx. Love…Neale.

  3. Berit Christensen Avatar
    Berit Christensen

    Det kan aldri være løsning å drepe et menneske pga at han har tatt livet av noen eller gjort andre voldelige ting som kan føre til dødsstraff. Å ta livet av en morder, er du selv blitt en morder. Og som er sagt i denne artikkelen, kan noen av de dødsdømte være uskyldige. Jeg er så glad for at vi ikke har dødsstraff i Norge eller land i nærheten. Jeg så dette så tydelig under terroristen 22. juli 2011 i Norge som drepte 77 mennesker, mange av dem var unge jenter og gutter på tur sammen.

    Vi var alle sammen i sorgen og de aller fleste mente at de var glade for at Breivik fikk en skikkelig rettsak. Ingen nevnte dødsstraff, bortsett fra terroristen selv. Dette var jeg så glad for. Mener fortsatt Norge gjorde rett. Hilsen Berit fra Norge.

    ***ENGLISH TRANSLATION:

    “There can never be a solution to kill a man because he has killed someone or done other violent things that can lead to death. To take the life of a murderer, you have become a murderer. And that is said in this article, some of the prisoners to be innocent. I am so glad that we did not have the death penalty in Norway or nearby countries. I saw this so clearly under the Terrorist 22 July 2011 in Norway that killed 77 people, many of them were young girls and boys on a trip together.

    We were all together in grief and the vast majority said that they were happy that Breivik had a proper trial. Nobody mentioned the death penalty, but the terrorist himself. This I was so happy. Norway still did right.

    Berit – Greetings from Norway.”

  4. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Indeed, condemning people to death parallels and is strongly motivated by the idea of a God condemning “sinners” to “hell”.

    So it may not be a coincidence that conservative Christians and most religious fundamentalists such as are found in some Muslim nations support this form of cold-blooded murder by the State.

    Interesting how conservative Christians call a person who has compassion a “bleeding heart” while believing that Jesus bleed for them.

    The absurdities and contradictions are without end…

  5. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Meant to write “bled for them”

  6. evergreen Avatar
    evergreen

    humanely and executed just aren’t two words that belong together

  7. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    I’m generally against the death penalty, but is it really a death penalty? The premise of CWG is that we do not really die, isn’t it? Don’t we agree that we should stop being afraid of death, because we don’t ever really die?

    Is there any possibility that it might be a greater crime against a person to lock him up like an animal, than to simply send him back home? Is it better for that tortured soul to find it’s way back home for healing and growing? I wonder if any regression therapists have anecdotal information about this.

    My thoughts on this are admittedly fashioned in part by “Mike” the “Stranger in a Strange Land” in Robert Heinlein’s book. Mike had the power to telepathically send people home, and he emptied some prisons of some folks and released the rest, as he considered it to be a greater crime to lock them up than to send them back to the end of the line to try again.

    Just a thought…

  8. Glee Avatar
    Glee

    Thank you Pat. I do believe that was actually a positive thought there–and I was beginning to lose all hope for the global conversation.

    Perhaps if we are going to come up with a new cultural story, we should like talk about that now and then. You know, a little positive visualization or something. After all, this business of shaking a finger indignantly at the world’s injustices has never been any more effective than the death penalty and is just as conceptually inconsistent with what we say we believe.

    Do we believe in immortality?
    Do we believe that we each individually and severally create our own reality?
    Do we have the courage to let people who believe in things we don’t like work out their own salvation?
    I usually end up thinking that in a really, really transcendent world there would be no meddlers.

    Well, I wish you luck with your conversation and I hope it goes where you think you want to go. For myself, I haven’t read Stranger in a Strange Land in a long time. I’m sure there’s a copy around here sometime.

  9. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    The only problem with “sending people home” is this:

    Who has the actual authority, in terms of consciousness?

    Who will step in and say “my consciousness is so highly evolved that I can clearly see, without any doubt whatsoever, who deserves to live and who should be sent back to the end of the line”.

    You see, the problem is, those individuals whose consciousness is highly evolved develop this apparently very annoying little trait called compassion.

    Just a forgotten detail in the latest additions to this conversation.

  10. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Compassion, by the way, works like this:

    If a person desires to die and expresses the wish, then the compassionate thing would be to help, provided that the decision proves to be perfectly level-headed and not the outcome of temporary anguish, despair, depression or fear.

    If a person wishes to live, the compassionate thing is to let him or her live.

    If a person wants to live while caged like an animal, who is to say there is not a lesson in this as well, an opportunity to go within and to reflect, to heal, to grow?

    Who is anyone to judge whether another would be better off dead? REALLY?

  11. Buzz Avatar
    Buzz

    My goodness! What an excellent thread, thanks Neale! Furthermore, because of the way Neale has cleverly worded the header, The Buzz here is magnificently electric. I can feel the tension, people forming conclusions, asking themselves and each other very hard questions, oh the joy. I live for moments like this, and this is my first comment. Well done everyone!

    I can see how if Pat hadn’t commented to that effect, I would’ve tried. If Mewabe hadn’t responded the way he did, I would’ve tried that too. I can see logical validity in both points, creating a near-perfect paradox when added to the comments before them. This is my bliss, and there’s nothing sadistic about it.

    Hello and welcome Glee.
    Another excellent point. I think the bar has been raised with the presence of these new contributors, and I hope Glee, Maribeth, and Berit will become regulars here.

    Making important and life changing decisions on behalf of others is always very tricky. Perhaps juries could be asked to provide their recommendations regarding not just guilt or innocence, but also the severity of penalty in every case. People may feel differently about the death penalty when they are in the jury room, required to reach a unanimous verdict on it’s use in each case. To hold the life of another in your hands is different to marking a square on an anonymous piece of paper in a private voting booth.

    Having said that, courtrooms have had hung juries over a lot less, as people are forced to challenge their deepest beliefs by the other jury members. Very VERY heated arguments occur in those rooms, and an inability to reach unanimity shouldn’t lead to a retrial, so does the decision fall to the judge, or does it become a mathematical formula based on percentages and degrees of agreement amongst jurors.

    Finally, would it be feasible and ideal to increase the size of the jury, and/or to keep every jury sequestered from before trial starts in every capital crime case?

  12. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Hello all,

    It is true that death is a fiction & that nothing real is ever lost, so, when someone leaves here no damage has been done.

    BUT…… To my way of thinking no one has the right to end the physical experience of another except that person themselves. We are here so that All That Is can experience what it knows conceptually & to end anothers experience without their permission is not something I agree with.

    There are always concequences for our actions but the death penalty is not one we should employ.

    This movement should always be about what we are FOR not what we are against.

    Namaste Scott

  13. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    There are always two sides to any particular issue. Focusing on issues means getting bogged down in details. Before long you have a list like a politician. Our movement stands here, here and here on all these issues and you’re so tied down arguing this stance or the other on all these issues that the primary focus is lost. If we’re going to get down to nitty gritty details on issues, then let’s cut to the chase and become experts in religion. That’s where the problem is and everything else grows out of it. Let’s not choose sides in gun control, the death penalty, drug legalization, immigration, tax policies, and so on.

    In this case, for example, I think it confuses the message to tell people that ‘we are all one’ and we shouldn’t be afraid of death, but we’re against the death penalty. If this is supposed to be a civil rights movement, then what are we protesting? I’d say that we have a right to live without fear imposed by primitive religions and forcing that fear on us is a violation of our civil rights. It’s all about fear. Fear imposed by the twin beliefs we’ve all heard of but haven’t fully grasped their importance: that mankind is separate from all that IS, God, Life and each other and that mankind is inherently sinful, evil, fallen, in need of redemption. There are things in CWG that I don’t agree with, but Neale hit this one dead on. This is the core problem in our society. I can think of nothing more harmful than what those twin beliefs have done to us. Perhaps they once had a place, but they don’t any longer. It’s time to confront them.

    It seems like we dance around religion here, not wanting to hurt feelings or drive people away perhaps; but everything else is symptoms. The death penalty isn’t a root problem – it’s a symptom. Religion is the disease. We have to start by contrasting religion with spirituality, figure out how to make people understand that we are all one and that we are all magnificent. Then all our problems will go away! Yay! We should be able to knock that out before the end of the world in a couple weeks if we work fast…

  14. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    There is another alternative, inspired by how some Native Americans dealt with murder.

    In some cases, the cost of murdering another was reparation. The guilty party was simply made to give to the victim’s family until such family was satisfied.

    Interestingly, that’s how the US military deals with civilian casualties in Afghanistan…with suitcases full of cash, because they are trying to not create additional enemies.

    I am not sure of the validity of this approach, of the thought that money can buy peace and understanding, but what if murderers were put to work in prison to earn money that would all go directly to their victim’s family?

    I am not talking about forced labor, but about some form of real productivity that creates an average income while they spend their life “caged”.

    Instead of paying their “debt to society”, they would pay their debt to the victim’s family. It seems more logical to me.

    Of course it could be a form of tie that some may not wish, to be reminded of a murderer every time they get a payment.

    Some form of direct reparation however would be better than the personal revenge the death penalty often implies.

  15. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Pat, I agree with you, in your latest comment, about these twin beliefs (even atheists haven’t shaken the second belief, about humanity being flawed).

    A couple of weeks? I was hoping the world would be saved before breakfast tomorrow.

  16. Maribeth McFaul Avatar
    Maribeth McFaul

    Thanks Neale… it is actually a Mind, Body, AND Soul revolution. Human beings will transition from a diad existstance to a triad awareness, living a more balanced life. Once the Soul takes it rightful place in the triad, everything else will fall into place…it sounds like heaven on Earth.

    I agree Scott…lets seeek solutions that work instead of wagging fingers at what doesnt work. It is interesting that criminals are placed in “correctional” facilities, however, there is not much correcting going on in those places. Dealing with crime is something that will need to be addressed in a society where there is no right or wrong; good or bad, just what works and what doesn’t work. What works is relative. We have determined that killing another human being does NOT work…unless they are suffering. It’scomplicated. What ought the consequnces be for a murder in our new Cultural Story?

    I suppose Mr. Post wouldn’t have felt the need to rob the motel or kill the clerk if he had had his needs met. Most of the people in jails and prisons today are there as a result of drug or alcohol abuse…another serious and significant problem to be addressed.

    Finally, I am still wondering how he became so morbidly obese while in PRISON for 8 years??? The solution to the execution problem seems very simple. STOP over feeding Mr. Post!

  17. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Hi everyone

    I do think it is important to avoid protest & give energy to the positive changes we would like to see.

    What you resist persists & what you look at disappears.

    So let us look at what doesn’t work, accept it for what it is & it will lose it’s power over us. Then we can direct our energy to what does work, what we are FOR. We don’t need to spend our energy tearing down the old, it will fall by the wayside as we build our New Cultual Story.

    The worst thing we could do is to fight against what we don’t want. When we do that we move into the same vibrational frequency that produces what we are fighting against.

    Hi Maribeth & welcome, glad you are here & at the village.

    Namaste Scott

  18. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Hi Maribeth

    Just read your question about what to do with people that kill with regards to our new cultural story.

    Not kill them for a start. Some people will have to be restrained until humanity reaches a very high level of awarness & how we deal with such people will have to be considered of course.

    Good question Maribeth

    Namaste Scott

  19. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Scott, we can extend the question to what to do with the people who will not accept this new cultural story or any other new paradigm and will cling to the old (old religion, old ideologies such as communism)…people who could be in the millions (see China).

    They won’t just disappear, and they have children whom they train to think just like daddy and mommy.

    I am not suggesting giving up, but even though we are evolving faster today in some ways (in terms of awareness, not necessarily consciousness) we may still be looking at another couple of thousands of years, conservatively speaking, providing humanity lasts that long.

  20. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Hi Mewabe

    Before I respond to you I Just want to say that I’m a little gun shy when it comes to talking to people posting here.

    One of the things Buzz has done here is to use false names & pretend to be different people at the same time. I don’t know if he is still doing this so it’s difficult to know if I’m talking to a real person or one of Buzz’s alter egos.

    I hope your not offended but I did think that you could be one of his creations & I’m not altogether sure that your not. Unfortunately these are the kind of ramifications deceptive behavior can produce. For now I will simply take you at face value & once again ( if you are real ) I hope you are not offended by what I have said.

    I’m not highly educated on China but I believe the “East” in many ways have a much more open point of view about what God is & how life works. Their culture goes back much further than the “West” & the process of change is one that happens slowly as you have indicated. As the new cultual story develops hopefully all of us will develop with it in our own way within our differing cultures.

    Good to talk to you Mewabe

    Namaste Scott

  21. Buzz Avatar
    Buzz

    Scott,
    Marko and Neale are the only ones contributing here that I am sure are not alter egos. You, Inger, Maribeth and Lisa are the only others that I can think of using names that could be their real name.

    Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet? Would you move toward rose scented vomit or vomit scented roses if placed blindfolded between them? Why are you getting so caught up with names?

    I have not used any other identities on this site besides that one thread with Mewabe. You weren’t even a contributor then, and I believed it was the most effective way to portray oppositional perspectives and contradictions simultaneously. Actually, given the content we were able to discern, it was effective, and I had always intended to reveal the gambit, which I did.

    Since then I have ONLY been Buzz, as this persona is producing sufficient stimulus. If being The Buzz of The Global Conversation becomes any more unproductive as you remain hung up on this, I’ll simply change my name again. I don’t even feel a sense of attachment to my real name. Why would I? They’re just letters, and have no intrinsic definition or meaning.

    Let it go!

  22. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Thanks for responding Scott, no I am only me, myself and I.

    I am not Buzz or any other, and unless Buzz is God, I am not his creation. If you will notice Buzz spells certain words the Queen’s English way. Of course that could be a clever trick to make us think he is part of the Royal family.

    I do not put my real name here because I made the mistake of doing this in the past, and my work causes me to be “out there”.

    I don’t pay too much attention to the strategies others might employ…if there is something they express to which I feel compelled to respond, I respond, but without attaching much importance to personalities, even multiple ones.

    Anyway, yes Scott we are planting seeds…whether we will see the outcome grow to maturity ourselves is not important, the important is to express our truth and let the next generations make their own choices with the vast information they will have.

  23. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Good to talk to you too Scott…

    Hey Buzz, prove it, that there is only one Buzz. This place is buzzing and I am not sure I can deal with all the buzz…What the buzz is it all about anyway?

    Anyway I am buzzing off for the day.

  24. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Buzz

    I’m sorry if you don’t like me talking about your “gambit” as you call it & I’m not trying to upset you but as I have said before to you, when someone is deceptive or dishonest they lose credibility that is hard to recover.

    You say you were going to reveal what you were doing anyway but you didn’t do so until I told you that if you didn’t I would. Even when you did it wasn’t complete, you only revealed one of your alter egos & you did so on one of the less popular threads.

    You say you have only done this once but the problem with being dishonest is it makes it hard for people to believe you.

    It’s true that in a forum like this names aren’t so important but I think the people who come here are honestly representing who they are & what they believe & that they would like to know that the same is true of everyone that comes here.

    Namaste Scott

  25. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Hi Mewabe

    Glad your you & hope you stay that way.

    Your absolutly right, it’s not important to be there at the end ( it never really ends anyway ) the important thing is to start & do the best we can to create a better world for ourselves & the future generations to come.

    Talk to you again

    Namaste Scott

  26. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Hey Buzz, were you Jazz before, in a past “incarnation” here?

    I have a suspicion you are. Am I wrong?

  27. Buzz Avatar
    Buzz

    My only other persona’s have been Phoenix, and as you know already Mewabe, Your XL ansy sah. Also, as I said, it was only for that one thread, as a social experiment. At the time I considered playing with the idea for an extended period, but when Scott threatened to reveal my gambit it was already too late.

    Scott, if you check the time and date stamps, when Mewabe had said he was not going to continue to contribute, I had a choice to make. The primary reason for creating XL was to offer drastically differing opinions on gender roles simultaneously, and at a critical moment reveal that both sides of an argument can be correct simultaneously. I didn’t bother talking about Phoenix because it was only one comment. How could I have known it would result in such a poignant point 6 days later?

    Excellent point at 4:52 Mewabe. It seems Scott won’t even listen to me any more. Maybe he’ll listen to you.

    How can I prove there is only one persona from me here? There is the circumstantial evidence of my somewhat prevalent use of words like paradox, contradiction, oppositional, and conflicted.

    I do have a rather neat idea now though. Since everyone here knows I how conflicted (lol) I am, and that I use multiple persona’s, and what their names are, from now on I will contribute as all three, not as secret persona’s but with full awareness of everyone, so you can see just how far I can take you down the rabbit hole.

    FYI, Kristen, this is not about IQ or intelligence or whatever. I have a rather unique ability for perspective that some people here may benefit from my sharing around.

    So, in the gaming spirit, as per the already established construct from that one thread, XL is to be the super arrogant, anal retentive bastard, and you may direct all you’re rage, hate, disgust, sarcasm, etc, etc at him. With an ego and dominating, aggressive attitude that big, he can take it.

    Phoenix will become the caring, sympathetic, supportive, morally attached, nurturing female persona.

    Buzz will remain The Buzz, generating controversy as an (as much as I can) impartial voice.

    If i am asked to, I’ll try to come up with a way of making it clear all 3 are one person whenever requested. Let the gambit resume! and under full public scrutiny no less. I do love a challenge.

    🙂

  28. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    I was only teasing you Buzz about proving it…

    Anyway to get back to the topic, another aspect is that I find the scientific precision of the carrying out of the death penalty a little disturbing.

    It is cold, clean, mechanical, precise and clinical, and there is something that bothers me about this…this marrying of science, rationality and murder by the State reminds me of Nazi experiments on Jewish people for some reason.

    Not that the chopping of heads with a blunt axe would by any better.

    To make it clear again I do not support the killing of another human being in any manner, except in the cases of the defense of self or another when other means of protection are impossible.

  29. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Buzz

    Good to see you bounce back. Another crazy idea I see. Well who knows it might be fun but I have my reservations about it. Your XL ansy sah isn,t someone I’m interested in talking to & I don’t know if what you are planning to do is appropriate in this setting but at least it’s up front.

    Might be hard to let people know whats going on with new people comming online all the time but it’s your “gambit”. I imagine I could help with that part from time to time if you actually do this. LOL

    On a more serious but not too serious note, I will continue with our conversation back at the village as soon as I have time, not done with you just yet. “)

    Namaste Scott

  30. Phoenix Avatar
    Phoenix

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  31. Erin/IAm Avatar
    Erin/IAm

    If thought about, most of the folks in prisons did not commit crimes against the whole of society (else, would they not be considered as ‘terrorists’?)…They were committed, for the most part, upon individuals.

    So, would it not make more sense for those immediately involved to take the measures by the tethers? It is a much different scenario to be directly responsible for the ‘punishment’ of another…to openly reflect of one’s morality & substance, aimed at the very heart of their ‘test of faith’.

    Would it not make sense for the ‘victims’ to be opportuned to be more of their circumstance…perhaps, opportuning the ‘villain’ to become as well…in a more personally connected ‘mediation’?

    And if ‘death’ was the chosen re-action…So be it!…Don’t we all go Home somehow?

    However, it is much scarier for individuals to have such freedom as to care for their own situations…obviously why governances have taken this ‘heavy burden’ on ‘for us’. I believe a ‘re-burdening’ could awaken many to their personal responsibilities & co-creativeness in their process of defining their Selfs.

    btw…One of the reasons the ridiculousness of U.S. government has not yet been over-thrown by China (or anyone else) is because of the unpredictable nature of multi-Millions of individuals who possess unknown types & amounts of weaponry in this country…We are an Army unto ourselves, with convictions that far surpass that of failing leaderships. If actually ‘attacked’, it would be considered verrry personal, indeed…which is extremely difficult to strategically prepare to battle with. Life would have little meaning without the freedom we strive for…In other words, Death would not be worse than living without it…& we have proved this many times already. I kinda like being part of ‘unpredictable’ in this aspect.:)

    We have a sign on our never-locked doors…”We Don’t call 911″.:)

    P.S…Really? Some are hung up on his obesity? Humans take down elephants, don’t they? One shot…done deal!
    We have a ‘rule’…If you aren’t going to eat it, don’t kill it. (Tho, providing an exit option for a beloved other in unhealable misery is an exception.)

    Just sayin’…:)

  32. Buzz Avatar
    Buzz

    Okay Scott,
    Buzz will also act as narrator, given his impartiality, so assistance is unlikely to be necessary, however you may jump in at your convenience to help as you see fit.

    You will be targeted by His Excellency in tirades and such, as will everyone else, including Buzz and Phoenix. He will be devil’s advocate, arguing for the negative, like fear, etc, and while engaging him isn’t necessary, you may find it fun, and a means of expressing higher degrees of personal truth. He will promote that out of you, being your opposite. You can know yourself more deeply by defining yourself as not him.

    I hope you can now grasp how difficult it has been for me, trying to express all this through one screen name these past weeks.

  33. Your XL ansy sah Avatar
    Your XL ansy sah

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  34. Phoenix Avatar
    Phoenix

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

  35. Buzz Avatar
    Buzz

    Erin,
    That idea has been tried and failed miserably. When victims are put in control of the fate of their attacker, regardless of duration after the event, victims act from emotionally painful places, and are more often than not ruthlessly brutal in exacting revenge.

    Further studies on this show that the trauma of committing such ruthless vengeance in their emotionally distraught state can be even more damaging to the victim than the original attack.

    I’m sorry I told everyone I was you Your XL ansy sah. It may have been dishonest, but I had good intentions, that had nothing at all to do with your reputation. You’ve stuffed that up more than enough all on your own, in one comment I might add.

    Oh, and let me be the first to say to you direct: you are NOT welcome back.

  36. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Interesting theater Buzz…you should add to the crew: a Catholic nun, a homeless man, a female to male gay activist, an Iraq war veteran on meth, a Bank executive, a UFO abductee, an Evangelist, an illegal family scared about by La Migra, Mitt Romney, and a talking horse.

    Then you can do what you really should do….write a novel.

  37. *lisa* Avatar
    *lisa*

    Clearly I missed something that occurred before my arrival here at CWG…one thing I can say for sure is that I am who I say I am!

    I agree that if we are to be examples of our highest beliefs then the planned taking of a life, for a life, seems out of the realm of possibility. From the family’s perspective on wanting to see the perpetrator dead, it is probably stemming from wanting a release from the emotional pain and emptiness they feel since their loss. My guess would be that after the inmate is executed, they are still feeling just as empty and lost inside.

    We talk of taking human lives. What about killing someone to defend yourself or someone else? How about the recent headline where a 22 year old male went into a shopping mall and started popping off rifle rounds and killing innocent christmas shoppers. Should we let him roam free until his bullets run out in the name of humanity or should we cut him short? I know what I would do and we know how this situation turned out (he killed himself). But am just curious about opinions here.

  38. mark giza Avatar
    mark giza

    So funny. With all the problems going on…. this is a priority to them? Very sad. Just another reason the government is retarded. Cancer of the mindset.

  39. Jessie Goussot Avatar
    Jessie Goussot

    I just want to say thank you for bringing this issue to our attention. I bless love in the heart of all of those who are imprisoned physically or mentally.

  40. Trisha Avatar
    Trisha

    Humane execution and prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment go together? I think not. ‘nough said.

  41. Sebastian Avatar
    Sebastian

    Go Neal!

  42. Maria Sara JIjon Avatar
    Maria Sara JIjon

    It is time for the USA to abolish the death penalty.

  43. Kay Robb Avatar
    Kay Robb

    I think this is a hard one. I work at an institution where I see all sorts of behavior and life dispositions. There are some people willing to change and some not at all willing to change. For some people whose sociopathy is ingrained…well I wonder about the use of resources we have to feed, clothe and take care of this person along with staff hours, etc. All things that could be used to help another human being with more possibility for positive behavior. I don’t believe in a vindictive god and I believe there is an afterlife with love, healing and forgiveness and enlightenment, etc. But I wonder about here and the merit of keeping alive someone, like a serial killer, maybe not someone who has taken one life whether through accident or neg. outlook, but someone who exhibits what I would consider to be soulless behavior.

  44. Kay Robb Avatar
    Kay Robb

    I also think about how I’d feel if a person seriously harmed one of my loved ones. Generally speaking, person harmed or murdered by someone else is someone’s loved one. I think it would be very hard to see that person live on and on and be taken care of while my loved one is gone. It’s all well and good to think high thoughts in the abstract but when it hits home you might not feel so high minded.
    I don’t know what the answer should be but I think Remorse would be a big factor. Is this person who committed the crime someone who can be rehabilitated?

  45. Kay Robb Avatar
    Kay Robb

    One more thought: If the person does not appear to be someone who can be rehabilitated, wouldn’t it serve the universe more to end his/her path of destruction and then the higher powers could rehabilitate this person ultimately?

  46. Scott Kogan Avatar
    Scott Kogan

    A single gunshot to the back of the head will do the job instantly and with no pain.

  47. Inger Lise Avatar
    Inger Lise

    Thank you Kay of asking these questions.

    I`ll know it is many interprations about good versus evil….”but when sociopathy” is ingrained, and not cureable….What then?
    And often to let them out among the public(after the treatment), and of the same person(s)continues with the same serious crimes ?
    Many of them will be smart and clever and manipulate
    the folks among them until it is ending up in the catastrophes time and time again.
    Oftentimes is it not easy “of to catch them” because of the high education and “the ruling roles” in the work-places.
    Hmm, am to recall of to have read something about it(in the spiritual sights), in the study of the Edgar Cayce Readings once upon a time.

    As of to recall….of all the involved persons have CHOSEN the circumstances on forehand(the life-in-between-life decisions).
    This will be something which(usually) to make the discussions of “to Boil.”

  48. mewabe Avatar
    mewabe

    Hey Scott Kogan, will you be the first one volunteering, and let’s see how you feel after shooting a dozen people in the back of the head in cold blood.

    You may enjoy it…but then, what would make you different from a common murderer? Do you think that what you might perceive to be righteousness or that a court judgment would make killing a breeze?

    I extend this invitations to all who support the death penalty. As with jury duty, you should all get an opportunity to get your hands dirty…and feel what it is like to kill someone methodically and in cold blood…look into their eyes before…make sure you feel their common humanity…just so you understand the actual consequences of your choice.

  49. Pat Avatar
    Pat

    The conversation seems to be focused on whether the death penalty is good or bad. Shouldn’t the focus be on trying to understand why people do things that put them on death row in the first place?

    I always come back to the twin beliefs of religion. If people are raised to believe that they are bad and alone, (inherently sinful and separate from God, Life and each other), then why should we be surprised when they act that way?

    (I’m not Buzz or anyone else, either).

  50. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    Just so everyone knows Your XL ansy sah is also Buzz acting as a separate character here.

    Namaste scott

  51. Phoenix Avatar
    Phoenix

    (The Global Conversation invites and values the contributions of anyone who feels moved to express thoughts and opinions, share observations, and engage in meaningful dialogue on our website. If you feel you need to do so anonymously, we respect that. However, posting under multiple user names in an effort to mislead others about who is doing the posting undermines the authenticity of our relationship with each other on this site, and inhibits a mutually beneficial exchange. The editing department of this newspaper will therefore promptly remove all posts that are designed to intentionally misinform or deceive whenever they are discovered. If you observe such deception, please inform us with a note to Lisa@TheGlobalConversation.com)

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